I need your opinion...before I get into a legal battle with my Volkswagen dealer.

"Der Käfer" (Rhy)
11/21/2013 at 14:07 • Filed to: None

I bought my Beetle October 2, 2013 at in Newport News Virginia. I walked in clearly stating I want a quality, Certified Pre-Owned car with a great warranty, NO ACCIDENTS and would be financially obtainable due to the fact I had a large amount of negative equity in my trade vehicle. After being reassured of the cars clean history I signed all the final sale paper work and I was told to come back the next day for a gas tank fill up and a detail. AS instructed, I returned the next day and when waiting for the car to be return to me in the service department, a service employee thought my hood did not look all the way closed and upon closer inspection it was but was not closing properly, I also noticed gaps in the body panels and paint imperfections, being the fact that I only looked at one beetle, I did not know by looking at it the first time that anything was wrong cosmetically. I then researched the car further and pulled a more detail car report that I paid for that revealed the car was in a front and rear end collision It showed a police report with type of accident and case number).

The dealership said they had no idea about the accident and that those reports are not always true but that they would take the car and address all cosmetic issues. When I came back for that repair, I was told it would take no more than 48 hours and that I would be placed in a free of charge rental, the repairs ended up taking a week and 4 days.

I live in Virginia Beach, about 50-60 minutes away from NN and I was told the car being certified pre-owned meant I can take it to my local dealership to have any warranty work or service done. I made an appointment with Volkswagen of Virginia beach to have my head lamps adjusted, took the car in and when I was showing the technician the issue he looked under the hood and asked if the car was in an accident and I said "yes it was, but that was prior to me owning the car" and then told me that in the warranty booklet (provided) the warranty becomes void on any parts of the vehicle involved in an accident or outside damage not manufacture or dealer caused. The tech proceeded to show me the various paint overspray in and around the engine bay (primarily under the engine cover, that'swhy I couldnt see it) and the misalignment of body panels. He said the red flags were not hard to see and that NN VW couldn't have missed these things.

Volkswagen also stated that cars can be certified that were in an accident BUT still failed to disclose this with me even though I asked before if it was. This to me is unacceptable because if I knew the car was wrecked before and that the warranty would be affected as a result before I bought it, I would have never considered it because the car I traded ended up costing more in repairs than what I paid for it, which is why I even bought the CPO VW so I could have the peace of mind for years knowing all repairs would be covered under a warranty.

I want a better resolution than what is being offered to me and don't know if I am out of place for demanding what I stated. I would love some advice.

DISCUSSION (49)

pfftballer > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:19

Sorry but taking a salesman's word for it is never a good option. You should have ordered a detailed car report before closing the deal. Sounds to me like you're stuck having the dealer you bought it from do whatever they're willing to do to make it right. I would find out who owns the dealership and write them a letter explaining the details of the problem and that you were going to proceed with legal action and report them to your attourney general's consumer protection division. Fire off this letter certified mail and see what you get. Good luck.

desertdog5051 > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:21

Always ask to see a Carfax when buying from a dealer.

Der Käfer > desertdog5051
11/21/2013 at 14:23

Thats my problem.... THE CARFAX IS CLEAN.

Der Käfer > pfftballer
11/21/2013 at 14:24

Carfax Reports 0 accidents which is why I was sold! but Iused another institution that uses poilce reports as well and found out that way!

pfftballer > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:25

Well then you're good. Carfax has a buyback guarantee .

Battery Tender Unnecessary > desertdog5051
11/21/2013 at 14:26

I always check autocheck and NMVTIS as well, since there can be holes in Carfax's data, especially with recent accidents.

Der Käfer > pfftballer
11/21/2013 at 14:27

My issues then is 1. my old car is long gone and 2. all that negative equity.

Tom McParland > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:29

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if the accident did not show up on the vehicle history report there is no way to prove that the dealership knowingly sold you a damaged vehicle and did not disclose it. Keep in mind that more often than not only repairs processed through an insurance company will show up on a VHR. So if the car got wrecked and the owner fixed it out of pocket, than the likelihood of it being in a database record is slim. However, it may be worthwhile to contact a local "lemon law" attorney and explain your case.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:29

Carfax has a buyback guarantee... Just look that up .. They will help

KB Garage > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:32

That's not going to be much of a "battle." You'll pretty much get slaughtered in court unless you can prove the dealer knew about the accident. More than likely they did not and it was an oversight.

Der Käfer > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 14:32

I have a consultation with one on monday. I'm so mad lol.

Tom McParland > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:37

Yeah it sucks big time

Meatcoma > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:39

Could probably send this to small claims court, although it will more than likely cost you more than you stand to lose.

Meatcoma > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 14:41

get you a 4ft by 6ft piece of foamboard and some markers. Write down something along the lines of Casey VW lies to it's customers or something. Grab you a folding chair and go sit just off of their property close to the main customer entrance with the sign in full view. When they get tired of you they will send out someone who can make shit happen, that's when you make your demands. It does work.

Der Käfer > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 14:44

I work for the navy, let me go round up some navy seals and head over.

N/A POWAAAHH > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 14:53

+1 Yup, it works, I guy did it for 3 days straight in my town

Klaus Schmoll > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 14:56

Kinja'd!!!

It always works!

Meatcoma > N/A POWAAAHH
11/21/2013 at 15:00

Yea my father in law did it. It was a different scenario but they still caved after 2 days.

They sold his car when it was in for service. Offered him $ equal to the value of it as well as some other offers.. He ended up walking out with a car worth 3x the value of his ranger because the General Manager wanted him to leave.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 15:11

How do you manage to sell someones car when its just in for service?

McMike > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 15:26

You might want to take the dealer details out of your story - Oppo pops up on google results now.

davedave1111 > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 15:28

Depending on what your local police are like, it may be worth getting them involved. If the dealer knowingly and deliberately sold you a car under false pretences, it's straight-up fraud.

It's probably unlikely that criminal charges will stick, but they ought to at least be investigated - and having cops turn up asking difficult questions is likely to get the dealership suddenly bending over backwards to help resolve the issue such that they're not profiting from it.

Meatcoma > Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ
11/21/2013 at 15:31

Stealerships do a lot of things that boggle the mind.

davedave1111 > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 15:34

"there is no way to prove that the dealership knowingly sold you a damaged vehicle and did not disclose it"

I'm not sure on the US law, but if the salesman did so knowingly then surely it's a criminal matter? If they merely unwittingly sold a vehicle not fit to meet the requirements of the contract made, then it's a simple civil matter, although they oughtn't to have a leg to stand on if they admit the facts of the matter to be true.

I can't understand how a car can be CPO-checked without them noticing the accident damage. The implication is either that the check wasn't thorough or competent enough for the car to count as certified, or that the dealership did know that the car had been in an accident and ought to have noted that.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 15:58

I don't want to sound like an ass, but this is probably a good time to remind everyone to learn signs of accident damage (and repairs) and thoroughly inspect a used car yourself before you buy it. If you feel you are unable to do this yourself, you can find someone who is qualified (or at least more knowledgeable) for that sort of thing. That being said, your situation sucks, and I feel for you. It's never fun when dealing with this kind of crap with cars. You feel betrayed and made a fool, at your own expense.

N/A POWAAAHH > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 16:05

Wut? Even if it's leased, wouldn't he have to sign something in order for the title to be transferred?

Meatcoma > N/A POWAAAHH
11/21/2013 at 16:07

All I know is, he came home one day with a rental, 2 weeks later they called wanting it back and could not find his truck when he took the rental back. He went down there with a sign and 2 days later came home with a NightCat.

What transpired in between... I was not privy to the details.

His Stigness > davedave1111
11/21/2013 at 16:22

But as the author stated the tech at his local dealership said the damage was very obvious as I've done CPO checks before you would have to note down the things like part not matching, overspray, panels not matching up. If the CPO certification was done correctly (which it wasn't) then it would not have been sold as a CPO.

His Stigness > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 16:23

Would Lemon Law apply to "cosmetic" damage though? I thought Lemon Law only applied to mechanical things that could deem the car unsafe or inoperable?

N/A POWAAAHH > Meatcoma
11/21/2013 at 16:23

what's a nightcat?

Montalvo > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 16:28

Never trust the full story from carfax. It is a good way to get a quick overview of the car but never look at it as the end all be all. A physical inspection will tell you everything you need. If the vins for panels/doors of the car are not matching or are fitting poorly ask why and be constantly wary. For every fault you see there are probably 3 under the surface. Its a good thing you finally found out but it sucks that it was too late to get out of this mess without someone getting burned.

davedave1111 > His Stigness
11/21/2013 at 16:53

That's what I was trying to say in my second paragraph. Either the car wasn't properly checked, or the dealership knew about the damage. From what you're saying, in the second case the car shouldn't have been certified at all.

Is it possible/likely that the dealer bought in a car that had been certified by someone else? If so that complicates matters slightly, but it's the dealer's problem if what you say about not certifying damaged cars is correct.

His Stigness > davedave1111
11/21/2013 at 16:57

Oh sorry I didn't read it carefully enough.

Yeah if the tech noted the damages then the dealer is at fault. But even if he didn't notice the damage they're still at fault because the tech is part of the dealer.

If they bought the car from another dealer they still should check the car to make sure the other dealer did it right. I did used car certs on dealer trades many times.

No matter how you look at the dealer is negligent for not noticing the damage.

davedave1111 > His Stigness
11/21/2013 at 17:13

You should probably point the OP at your last comment. I was just speculating/questioning, but you've actually got some experience of this.

His Stigness > davedave1111
11/21/2013 at 17:24

I'll let him know. But I'm not sure about the Lemon Law and how it applies here, if it does at all, I asked Automatch but he hasn't responded yet.

His Stigness > Der Käfer
11/21/2013 at 17:28

Just adding my two cents here:

As a dealership technician I believe that the dealership did know about the damage to the car and the previous accident, but not because of any report. As you stated your local tech pointed out the irregularities and said it's obvious. The dealership would have/should have noticed this damage when during their used car inspection. At a dealership whenever a used car is sold it must go through an inspection, and the complexity of that inspection depends on whether it is being sold as a normal used car or a CPO. Since your car was sold as a CPO I know they have sections that tell the tech to check over the overall condition. I used to work at VW too and the CPO inspection sheet is very thorough. So either the tech was incompetent or he saw it and the sales department decided to sell it anyways, either way they should have known about and either addressed the issues before selling it, or informed you. Either way they're in the wrong and you have recourse, at least that's my opinion.

His Stigness > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 17:30

I just realized that the dealership would have known about the damage, but not nescecarily from a report. Any time a used car is sold at a dealership it either gets a safety inspection or it goes through a CPO inspection, with the CPO one being very thorough. I know from personal experience that the VW CPO certification process is very thorough and the tech would have/should have noticed the damage. But if he missed it the dealership is still at fault because they were not thorough enough.

Tom McParland > His Stigness
11/21/2013 at 17:46

Possibly but tough to prove with evidence.

davedave1111 > His Stigness
11/21/2013 at 18:01

I have no idea about the lemon law, but if you have a contract to buy a CPO car, and it turns out the car you were given is not CPO, that's a simple case of breach of contract or whatever it's called in that jurisdiction.

His Stigness > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 18:33

Actually it's quite easy: just get a copy of the CPO certification done by the technician. Either he marked the areas of concern and sales chose to ignore it and certify it anyways, or the technician was incompetent and they're in the wrong.

Tom McParland > His Stigness
11/21/2013 at 19:32

Wow interesting I didn't know you could get that report. That just may be the evidence this guy needs. Have you informed the author about this?

His Stigness > Tom McParland
11/21/2013 at 19:35

Yeah it should be in the service records somewhere. They need it for VW to certify the car.

I told him about the CPO inspection and if they know about it they misled him, or the tech was incompetent and they're still in the wrong, but I didn't specifically tell him he can get the CPO certification report.

Aaron James > McMike
11/21/2013 at 22:34

Why is that a bad thing? I'd want people to know if I got screwed too.

McMike > Aaron James
11/22/2013 at 05:21

I've seen situations like this get out of hand, and the customer is accused of being slanderous in court after the defense lawyer reads the internet.

Der Käfer > His Stigness
11/22/2013 at 07:43

This is exactly how I feel. They HAD to have seen it.

Der Käfer > Montalvo
11/22/2013 at 07:44

They are not working with me at all. It's worrysome.

Der Käfer > Montalvo
11/22/2013 at 07:45

They are not working with me at all. It's worrysome.

Der Käfer > All Motor Is Best Motor
11/22/2013 at 07:47

I think they just looked at my age and said "got 'em." Dont think you sound like an ass, I may know the mechanics and facts of a car but I have no idea how to watch out for these types of things. I wish I looked at a new beetle to compare things but I didn't...

Meatcoma > N/A POWAAAHH
11/22/2013 at 08:30

It's a trim level of a Mercury Cougar. For the time it was pretty slick.

His Stigness > Der Käfer
11/22/2013 at 16:04

Also, as I've told Automatch, you can get a copy of the CPO inspection. They have to keep a copy and Volkswagen will have a copy. I suspect that they did not check anything off as they would have had to either fix the issues first, or VWoA would not have certified the car.